Given England is the home of replacing the bones of dead nuke workers with broomsticks - its quite easy to show how safe nukes are - once you pull out the cancerous bones of the dead! But Britain is still dealing with the legacy of its first atomic installation at Sellafield - a toxic waste dump in one of the most contaminated buildings in Europe. Ha, ha - thinking that the dead or the alive felt being would care! You have wind OR fog. You could have solar energy where is dry and windy and Fat quadrupedal ruminant mammals where is foggy and grass-covered.
Seems consistent with Hirsch's view of the nonviability of renewable and lack of concern of climate change. I guess that's the realist's view. It was only a few years ago that renewables seemed to offer so much promise. Ah, but that was so long ago. Renewables work, but they ARE location dependent. The UK is in rough shape for solar access, there is wind, and then wave if a workable technology comes about. Of course, it might have been helpful to show a wind chart up top that wasn't just drawn from two days last month, 'when wind didn't deliver'. Maybe we'll find ourselves making our toast instead of just our bread on the tide charts again someday?
It was the miller of the old tide mill run by a Perkins since , who stood at the open window looking down at his mill pond below to see "how's the tide," and whether he should be able to start the mill. This old "Perkins mill" at Kennebunkport is one of the two remaining tide mills in Maine which are still grinding, the other being at Booth Bay Harbor, and one of the eight or nine tide mills still active in New England. They look so gentle, these tides, as they come swirling along in almost invisible Chinese patterns just below the surface of the water, and yet they play with the great five-hundred-pound stone down at the bottom as though it were nothing by an acorn, pushing it forward or letting it slip back to close the gate when their playing time is done.
On the top of the gate is the "yoke" and at the ends, the "two dead eyes. The secret of power in this pine, clay-embedded dam, is that it is so thin that it gives with the tide, while one of cement would break with the action of the salt water. The old mill seems replate with lessons which those run may read, and this of the yielding dam which need never fear to great a high tide, is one of them.
They have wind and they are developing it. They just need to do a lot more They'll have to figure out storage. Pumped hydro could handle a lot of it. I still think hydrogen is going to be important. With a large enough pipeline grid, you can also store a lot of energy in there. That is, by varying the pressure between psi and fully packed at psi I say do it. After half a life-time in renewable technologies, the general lack of realistic storage technologies available is my main motive for earning my living by selling industrial batteries www.
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But I do not kid myself, nor anyone else, that these can be economic for any longer than about 8 hours of storage at rated capacity. No more significant amounts of incremental, new pumped hydro can be built anywhere in mainland Europe. The above statement is so obviously false as to be ridiculous and to raise questions about the agenda of anyone claiming it. Simple common sense would indicate that there are thousands of dams in Europe with power generation capability and no pumping facilities, so pumped hydro "can be built" by adding pumps. Before you get all self-righteous and finger-pointing, please stop to do a few sums.
It's not as false and ridiculous as it looks at first sight. Taking Dinorwig as an example, it can run at 1. With the above storage you'd get, very roughly, 7 hours.
Nothing like enough for a calm period of a week or more. Not a "significant amount", in other words. What is 'false and ridiculous" is the claim that "No more significant amounts of incremental, new pumped hydro can be built anywhere in mainland Europe. The idea that the current pumped storage plans are all that "can be built anywhere in mainland Europe" is simply false and ridiculous. I can easily find potential sites in France alone, on existing reservoirs, without counting the additional potential from pumping and releasing sea-water.
Norway could dam a fjord and have many gigawatts of pumped storage from a single installation. Obviously there are environmental consequences to such a project, but to claim that it is impossible is just not true. I was aware of the new 2 GW capacity being built in Portugal, specifically to balance the new wind that Portugal is also building. I am most obliged to you for this useful study and the link. But with due respect, given that Europe's mostly thermal generation capacity is over GW, 7 GW of new and proposed pumped hydro is pretty small stuff.
As the study points out and you have quoted, new pumped storage in our crowded continent is highly site specific.
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It always controversial on environmental grounds. I have absolutely no secret "agenda" in writing this paper except to state the obvious. That the UK is between a rock and a very hard place, vis a vis "keeping the lights on". I recognize that there are environmental and financial issues with pumped storage and for this reason installing pumps on existing reservoirs is preferable before new projects, but both will occur.
Those not only include technical issues like water availability, but also high energy commodity prices, a wide electricity market price differential between peak and off-peak demand, and a lower cost of generating renewable power as technology improves. And by all means don't ignore geothermal power, as Europe, the US, Australia, etc have resources to replace their current levels of conventional thermal power generation with EGS.
So you have not even begun to scratch the surface of renewables and modern grid management concepts, so the phrase "Renewables can't keep the lights on" is speculative at best, and most likely entirely false as an encompassing proposition. US Geothermal Power Resources. European Geothermal Power Resources. Yes he did seem to tip his hand some there. No significant amount of new pumped hydro in Great Britain I could swallow.
Mainland Europe goes all the way to the Urals. I can't believe the old east block is that fully developed. The old eastern block is quite flat until you get to the Urals; the big rivers in Ukraine and in western Russia were dammed in the Stalin and Krushchev eras, and I think Romania gets 1. On the other hand, the first page I found googling for Carpathian hydro-electricity says 'the hydro-electric potential of the Carpathians is unexploited'.
Tha nations that once made up Yugoslavia are quite mountainous. The Tatra mountains on the border of Slovakia and Poland, In fact, a topographic map of Poland with several regions of interest for pumped storage. I took a look at a couple pages on Polish hydro.
Renewables Won't Keep the Lights On
We are not talking British Columbia type potential here and much is utilized--though some with old, poorly designed projects. Big fish migration issues. This article sums up most of the hydro envisioned in the near future, mostly small stations. But it makes no mention of pumped hydro. The only mention of pumped hydro I found was that a large part of hydro power currently produced comes from large hydro stations with their own pumped hydro capacity. The Poles burn coal.
Coal plants can load follow and be dispatched as needed. The Poles thus have little need for pumped storage, therefore no plans. Build more transmission to Germany and that may well change. Periodic "free" wind power will serve as an economic incentive for this to happen,. I had similar thoughts, though "free power" is not how I'd term it but rather that Poland would earn a cut from the storage.
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The Poles are one of the biggest players in the European coal game, but it appears considerable restructuring of that industry is underway. I'm no engineer but it would seem some environmentally enlightened designs could be used for pumped hydro storage. Not a bad way to invest money earned exporting coal. A lot of the viability of hydrogen depends on fuel cells. If fuel cells -- as expected -- become cheap enough, your numbers become gibberish. We will have hydrogen pipelines, because that's the only way to get the hydrogen to the fueling stations.
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Try comparing apples to apples. An ICE is not an energy storage technology. How will fuel cells becoming cheaper increase the efficiency of electrolysis, which is already a bit worse than batteries? Unless the source of energy going into storage is really cheap and it's not going to be , then round-trip efficiency of storage is going to be the most significant factor in which storage tech is chosen.
HughSharman was commenting on the "round trip efficiency" of using hydrogen. I didn't spell it out, but I was inviting him to look at the round trip efficiency of gasoline in an ICE. I think you'll find it is extremely low, even though we didn't put the stored solar energy in the ground in the first place.
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Consider that a barrel of oil underground has 5. How much of that energy goes to your wheels? I think you could count the percentage points on one hand. You are framing this issue as any battery salesman would frame it. The thing we really want to know is how much would a kg of hydrogen cost at the filling station. Battery powered cars will not compete well with hydrogen fuel cell powered cars due to weight.
The battery pack in an electric car tends to weigh to pounds. The fuel cells on a Honda Clarity weigh pounds and take up much less space. So, if something like the Honda Clarity becomes economic all major car manufacturers are also working on fuel cells , people will want to buy them. This means the hydrogen will be piped to fueling stations hydrogen can't be trucked economically over any great distance According to this report, we can get a kg of hydrogen with That's a reasonable statement, but the issues are complicated. In the US, the best wind resources are in areas where there would not be much demand for the power roughly in the midsection of the country from below the Texas panhandle to the Canadian border.
In order to utilize these stranded wind resources, we'd need a very large transmission and distribution system. The basic choices would be high voltage power lines or hydrogen pipeline.